The following is taken from an Indradyumna Swami ‘darshan’ – (Text COM:1974636).
My comments follow:
“But I would offer that there is a misconception here in guru-disciple relationship. Of course, it is certainly nice if one can have some personal instruction, a personal direction in one’s life from the spiritual master. But one’s success in Krishna consciousness is not necessarily based on that.”
Here Maharaja very nicely sums up the IRM position – that the absence of ‘personal direction’ does not hinder one’s spiritual life.
“Srila Prabhupada personally interacted with his spiritual master maybe three or four occasions. I think, he wrote two letters to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and received one reply. And if one’s advancement in Krishna Consciousness is dependent upon the personal association of the spiritual master, directing one in one’s daily activities, then what are the chances of me in perfecting my Krishna consciousness because my spiritual master passed away in 1977? I haven’t seen Srila Prabhupada almost twenty years. “
Maharaja again destroy’s the GBC’s current ‘living Guru’ idea.
“So I think there is a fallacy, there is something wrong in this mentality, that the spiritual master is not taking proper care of his disciples if he is not able to answer each and every one of their letters. The spiritual master is not Krishna. He can’t expand himself in 16,108 forms and personally be with each disciple.”
Maharaja here perfectly exposes the falsity of the need for the Guru to have a vapu form to be able to take ‘proper care of his disciples’.
“So if my disciples listen very carefully to the lectures, to the tape ministry, and read the few books that I’ve printed, and carefully study Srila Prabhupada’s books, I feel that they are armed with knowledge to stand and fight against the material energy. I am completely, hundred percent confident of that.”
* So the disciples need to take instruction primarily from Srila Prabhupada – since which Guru can compare with Srila Prabhupada’s tapes and books?
“That’s the way I follow myself in my relationship with Prabhupada, my spiritual master. I had the liberty in one or two occasions to ask from Prabhupada for some personal instruction, but now, if I need to understand something, I read the books or I can solve it with my godbrothers. So then I ask the disciples to do the same.”
So the program is to read Srila Prabhupada’s books, and take siksa from other senior devotees – the same formula given in ‘The Final Order’.
“But we do have the knowledge. It is available in Srila Prabhupada’s books, it is available through our spiritual master’s lectures through Nilakantha’s tape ministry. There is a lot! There is more that comes out from this tape machine than just plastic tapes (shakes a tape). What really comes out of that tape recorder on these tapes is divya-jnana, or transcendental knowledge.”
This of course also applies to Srila Prabhupada’s tapes!
Conclusion
Maharaja has given here a perfect treatise on why the current Guru system is unnecessary. He has admitted himself, that he is not giving any value, and instead leaving it mainly up to Srila Prabhupada. So why not stop pretending and leave EVERYTHING to Srila Prabhupada – including the disciples which belong to him only. We do not need anymore of the “Let Srila Prabhupada do all the work – but let us take the credit” mentality! Maharaja has offered ample justification for cutting out the middle man since he wants us to take shelter directly of Srila Prabhupada anyway
Krishnakant | IRM| In the BTP 24 article “The Divinity Delusion”, we cited ISKCON GBC voted in guru HH Bhakti Vikash Swami (“BVKS”) claiming he should be worshipped as good as God almighty simply because, like any new bhakta (devotee) who joins ISKCON, he will tell people to follow Srila Prabhupada:
“My Vyasa puja [...] So you may think, well, what is my qualification to accept the honour and affection that you are offering to me [...] Well, that is my qualification, that if I can glorify Prabhupada then that’s the qualification …actually, the er… I’m not qualified, intrinsically, but qualified because I can point, “here is Prabhupada, and follow his instructions, and ask you to have faith in what Srila Prabhupada has given.”
(BVKS, “Vyasa Puja” Lecture, Tirupati, January 5th, 2008)
In fact, this philosophy of “act like a bhakta, get worshipped as a guru” was preached nearly two decades prior by the man responsible for “The Great Guru Hoax, Part 2″ (the current GBC guru system), HG Ravindra Svarupa Das (“RSD”). RSD claimed that Srila Prabhupada actually delivers divya-jnana (transcendental knowledge), and one can become a GBC elected successor guru simply by claiming the credit for delivering this divya-jnana oneself!
“For example a spiritual master may instruct a disciple, “Make sure you read Srila Prabhupada’s books for two hours every day…” — then he’s giving divya-jnana. He can do it this way. He need not be able to write those books, but if he keep his students reading the books, and he makes sure they understand what they read, then he’s giving divya-jnana.”
(Ravindra Svarupa Das, Vaisnava Institute for Higher Education, January 21st, 1990,
Vrindavan, published in ISKCON Journal, 1990).
An ISKCON guru is now no different to any bhakta who distributes books.
ISKCON’s guru hoaxers are happy to let Srila Prabhupada do all the hard work of giving divya-jnana and delivering disciples, while they take all the worship and credit and they openly admit it!
ISKCON leader set in concrete
ISKCON UK congregational preaching director HG Kripamoya Das (“KMD”) has again argued that due to the need for “rebuke, correction, and ongoing guidance”, the diksha, or initiating, guru must be: “..in Srila Prabhupada’s own words: ‘concrete’, ‘appearing before the physical senses of the disciple, and someone to whom the disciple can surrender in person.”
(both quotes from The Vaishnava Voice, April 4th, 2010)
As we have documented in previous issues of BTP, KMD continues to falsely attribute to Srila Prabhupada his philosophical misconception that the guru must be physically present before the disciple in order to act as the disciple’s guru. Let us examine the first quotation KMD alludes to:
“Not that in air you make a spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, September 23rd,1969)
Here all Srila Prabhupada is saying is that you cannot fabricate a spiritual master out of the air. Is KMD arguing that Srila Prabhupada is a fabrication? If so, he has been the disciple of an imaginary guru for the past 33 years!
Regarding the guru “appearing before the physical senses of the disciple”, KMD later confessed:
“I will admit to being unable to find the specific quote I wanted.”
(HG Kripamoya Das, June 10th, 2010)
As for the need for “rebuke”, “correction” and “ongoing guidance”, KMD contradicts himself, since he has admitted that he himself was never rebuked, corrected or guided by Srila Prabhupada when he was physically present!:
“you (Srila Prabhupada) replied “Jaya” [...] That was the only word you said to me directly [...] One word spoken thirty years previously”.
(HG Kripamoya Das, Vyasa Puja offering to Srila Prabhupada, 2007)
Same quote, opposite conclusion
1) GBC 1998: Srila Prabhupada is NOT the current link
Below, while attempting to refute the IRM’s The Final Order position paper, the GBC claim that Srila Prabhupada stating we must accept the “immediate next acharya” means that Srila Prabhupada is a previous acharya (guru), and we must accept a successor GBC-elected guru:
“[...] surrendering to a living bona-fide spiritual master, is imperative to the proper understanding of Vedic knowledge. This point is made clear in the following quote: “[...] You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate next acarya.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, December 8th, 1973)
[...] He clearly explains the principal of parampara, and even explicitly states that simply to read books is not enough ( a corner stone of the ritvik-theory), but rather the disciple must understand everything through his own spiritual master, and not attempt to independently understand the previous acharyas.”
(Prabhupada’s Order, Ministry for the Protection of ISKCON, GBC 1998)
2) GBC 2000: Srila Prabhupada IS the current link
However, just 2 years later, the GBC claimed (correctly) that Srila Prabhupada stating we must accept the “immediate next acharya” means that Srila Prabhupada is the current acharya, not a previous acharya:
“Srila Prabhupada said in a Srimad Bhagavatam lecture given in Los Angeles on December 8,1973:
“You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate next acarya.”
This would mean that in answering any difficult question, where there are apparent contradictions that cannot be easily resolved, our primary resource should be the words of Srila Prabhupada our “immediate next acarya.” [...]. If we were capable of independently absorbing sastra, why did Srila Prabhupada write purports to all of his translations? So the first resource should be Srila Prabhupada’s words.”
(Drutakarma Das, GBC Sastric Advisory Council member, The Origin of the Jiva, 2000)
Thus, depending on their agenda, and which conclusion they seek to prove, the GBC have no problem in shamelessly turning Srila Prabhupada’s teachings on their head claiming he is not the “next immediate acarya” when it comes to preserving their own illegal status as self-appointed successor hoaxer gurus, but claiming the exact opposite when arguing a different issue.
At least one ISKCON temple already accepts Srila Prabhupada as the guru. If one visits ISKCON Bangalore there will be no doubt that Srila Prabhupada is living still in sound and still very actively spreading the holy name around!
ISKCON Bangalore has created a positive example showing how nicely things can run if Prabhupada’s orders are followed and Prabhupada is the guru in ISKCON. They don’t want to attack ISKCON and it’s leaders. Rather they welcome devotees and leaders from other temples to visit so they can see first-hand how nicely a temple can run with Prabhupada in the centre.
Recently ISKCON Bangalore has withdrawn from the ISKCON Revival Movement (IRM). They are disappointed with the leadership of IRM and the new direction their preaching has taken. They are also not happy with the result of the IRM’s war with ISKCON in Calcutta. At least for the time being the preaching field in Calcutta has been spoiled. It is now very difficult to preach and distribute books there, the public don’t really understand what’s going on, just that there is an enormous fight within ISKCON and they don’t want any part of it.
Madhu Pandit Prabhu, the ISKCON Bangalore Temple President, says IRM are simply good when it comes to writing papers but they have no ability to work with people. He says, “Ultimately, if you want to preach, you need to work with people.”
Currently the Bangalore temple has a first-class reputation in South India and the public give a great deal of respect to the devotees and very much appreciate the ISKCON temple. Bangalore was once famous as the garden city, but now it’s famous for the ISKCON temple. Almost all the tourists to Bangalore now go to see the ISKCON temple… Considering this the Bangalore devotees don’t want to start a war with ISKCON which would destroy the good name of ISKCON in South India.
The GBC have given Madhu Pandit the guarantee they will not interfere with his preaching in South India but have not yet gone so far as appointing a ritvik representative of Srila Prabhupada to perform the initiations in Bangalore. This means that ISKCON now has its first official ritvik temple.
In the meantime the devotees in Bangalore are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada personally. When the Temple President considers a devotee to be ready for initiation he writes a letter recommending the devotee to Srila Prabhupada. Then the devotee goes before Srila Prabhupada and prays: “Dear Srila Prabhupada currently your ritvik representatives are not doing their service so I am asking you to please accept me as your disciple and inspire me to select a spiritual name.” So in this way the ISKCON Bangalore devotees are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada.
ISKCON Bangalore plans to increase the number of devotees waiting for formal initiation from Srila Prabhupada to one thousand. Then every year they will go to the Mayapur festival and have a grand kirtan and request the GBC to appoint a ritvik representative of Srila Prabhupada as Srila Prabhupada outlines in his July 9th, 1977 letter so the devotees can be formally initiated.
Due to serious leadership problems the IRM has lost most of its support from the worldwide community of devotees however we are all greatly indebted to Krishna Kanta Prabhu and the other IRM devotees for writing and putting so much energy into distributing and preaching about, “The Final Order.” While it contains nothing new [it's basically a summary of what many other devotees had written previously] the devotees distributing “The Final Order” were able to break through the barriers of ISKCON. The “Final Order” convinced Madhu Pandit dasa and many other leaders and general devotees in ISKCON that Prabhupada did establish a system to enable him to continue to accept disciples in ISKCON after his disappearance from our mundane vision.
Previously many devotees outside ISKCON knew Srila Prabhupada established a ritvik system to continue the initiations after his physical departure, but now, thanks to “The Final Order” many devotees living in ISKCON temples also agree, although they may not be able to come out and say it yet publicly. We shall see how things develop in the future…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy! All glories to jagat guru, saviour of the whole world, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
ITHACA, NY – Ex-ISKCON guru, John O’Brien, is now also an ex-Ithaca car salesman, closing his doors after a scandal-rocked year. 2007 was “difficult as hell,” claims O’Brien, adding, “What with the cost of gas and the weak dollar, people were just not taking to buying cars.”
The Ithacar Used Carlot in Ithaca, NY opened in spring of 2002, several months after O’Brien stepped down from the post of ISKCON guru due to sexual misconduct and what he calls “financial misunderstandings.”
But it was those “financial misunderstandings” that O’Brien insists gave him the business skills to establish the Ithaca-based business.
“You’d be surprised how similar the two jobs were,” Says O’Brien, whose skills as guru naturally lead him into the used car business.
“In ISKCON I had to convince my disciples that I was some pure and holy guy, ready, willing and able to take them back to Godhead, what they didn’t know was that I was sleeping with my secretary and lying on my expense reports.”
“And as a used car salesman,” he continued, “I had to convince my customers that I was some friendly and honest guy, ready, willing and able to sell that 1987 Ford Fiesta at invoice, taking not a penny of profit, what they didn’t know was that I picked it up at a repo-sale for under a hundred bucks. I was lying on my expense reports there too.”
The business flourished until 2006, the year he was audited by the IRS and taken to court on five separate occasions under New York’s Lemon Law.
“It was surprisingly similar to his experience in ISKCON,” states ISKCON spokesman Balananda dasa, “in both cases, he managed to pass himself off as honest and trustworthy, but in the end, it was his disciples and customers who paid the price.”
There were hints of misconduct at both professions long before termination of either. In 1994, several of O’Brien’s female disciples came forward, claiming to have to have been inappropriately touched and taunted by their, then, guru. This resulted in O’Brien being suspended from initiating new disciples for one full year.
Similarly, in 2003, a disgruntled customer, Jerry Berowitz, accused O’Brien of dishonesty involving a 1989 Mercury Topaz with two different Vehicle Identification Numbers. The lawsuit resulted in the suspension of his Auto Dealer’s License for one year.
“I just didn’t know what to do,” complained Berkowitz, “I trusted this man to be everything he said he was. I put my faith in him and he let me down. I was promised that this Mercury Topaz would take me back to home, but it was all lies.”
In a letter of apology to his customers, modified only slightly from his letter of apology to his disciples, O’Brien states, “Yes, I’ve made my share of mistakes, but I am truly sorry for the pain that I have caused to so many trusting people. But my with my health problems all the service I had to do, I simply couldn’t keep up with my daily duties and practices.”
O’Brien is now banned from giving class in any ISKCON temple as well as selling cars in New York state.
He claims that he will appeal the ruling and be “back in charge in no time at all,” but it was unclear whether he was talking about ISKCON or the Ithacar Used Car Lot.
From THE HING
While we’re all in the Krishna mood, this might be the perfect time to relate an account of an instance of deception that I discovered while still a devotee. Even now that I am no longer a devotee, this still serves to show the vociferous reactions of Sai Baba followers to this affair. Sometime around the year 2000, I read a post on the (now offline) Sai Unity yahoo group about a certain Australian devotee, ‘Luther Christ’, who had visited Puttaparthi sometime in the 1980s, and who took photos of Sai Baba during darshan times. Upon returning to Australia and subsequently developing the photos, he was surprised to find that one of them was a miraculous picture of “Sai Krishna”, a photo of Sai Baba as Krishna! This photo was attached with the post for all to see. As usual, several devotees on that forum thanked the poster for allowing them to partake of such grace as well as be in possession of this photo.
The only problem with this story was that I immediately recognised that this photo was a complete fake. It was not just the fact that it was an incredibly poor effort but that the background was similar to a painting of Krishna done by ISKCON artists. Since I have a long background with ISKCON I was able to recognise it immediately. In the “Sai Krishna” version, the blue of Sai Baba’s face is markedly different to the blue of the arms and the edges of the photo are rather conveniently blacked out. However, a gopi in the corner can be seen clearly. To double-check, I visited the galleries of various ISKCON-oriented websites as well as look in my old picture collection only to find that my guess was correct: the picture was indeed from ISKCON.
When I was thus armed with indisputable evidence of fraud and voiced these objections on the forum, there appeared to be no real reply except for one particularly long-winded rationalisation as to why we should accept the “Sai Krishna” photo as a genuine miracle. The explanation went something like this: “It is probably Swami’s will that those who need to see him this way will see him in that way. We do not need to concern ourselves whether this photo is fake or not.” With this type of logic, one can get away with anything under the sun. The devotees did not really seem to care that a fraud had been perpetrated and that they were guilty of blindly swallowing yet another inscrutable leela of Swami’s. Perhaps they were too embarrassed to admit it?
Since I had only made claims, I was asked by a more honest devotee in private to prove such claims by supplying him with the original ISKCON picture. This I did, and he promptly declared on the (also now offline) Unity In Diversity yahoogroup that he was in possession of the original picture and that I was able to support my claims of fraud. Even then, there was no real retraction of the picture or the accompanying story from the forum archives by any member or moderator.
The next part of this story occurred when I had left the organisation of Sai Baba and also given up my adoration and worship of him. Funny how the tables turn when you are on the other side; there seems to be an immediate air of distrust, suspiciousness, and plain ol’ hostility. This type of treatment may be par for the course in material organisations, but to receive it from people who are supposedly of a spiritual bent of mind is a shock to the system. Even with all their wacky beliefs you’d think that Sai devotees would show some concern/compassion/sympathy for former members of the “Sai Family” who have fallen away by the wayside, but no, you are guilty of the biggest sin on earth.
Alas, I digress and so on we go. When I brought up this issue of the ‘Sai Krishna’ photos in the Yahoo forums as an example of how the Puttaparthi photo labs are in the business of creating faked pictures now and again, I was rudely asked to provide proof by a certain adherent named Lisa De Witt (hereafter referred to as ‘LDW’):
Where’s the proof? You guys always talk a lot of crap but you NEVER have any actual evidence to back it up. It’s ALL talk.
Fair enough, so I simply recounted my story about the discussion that had transpired on the Sai Unity group and how I had proven this so-called miracle to be nothing but a cheap fraud. I also recounted the accompanying story of “Luther Christ” from Australia, informing LDW that she could see all of these evidences in the archives of Sai Unity. Surprisingly, she retorted:
Still talk and NO proof.
Erm, I had just informed LDW that the “proof” was to be found in the archives of Sai Unity. Moreover, since I happened to know that LDW was actually a lazy individual who needed all information on a plate, I took the responsibility of looking up the exact posts on the Sai Unity group and posting them all so that everyone could see the relevant exchanges. In retrospect, I wish that I had downloaded those particular postings instead of just posting links to them, considering that Sai Unity is now offline and none of the Internet Archive engines seem to have kept cached copies of the necessary postings. In any case, however, at the time it was real and true that the messages at hand could be seen by all and sundry.
Even more surprisingly, LDW retorted:
Unless you can put the photos side by side so people can see for themselves it is NOT proof.
Duhhhh. At the time of writing, Yahoo discussion groups do not allow messages to have their attachments saved. This means that if somebody in a discussion group wishes to post a picture to the group members, only the members at the time of posting will receive the picture; the picture is not available for download at a later date.
However, at the time this discussion was taking place, Yahoo Groups did allow attachments to be saved and thus we can see how absurd LDW’s contention is, considering that I had already provided direct links to the postings at hand which contained the necessary pictures to download. All LDW had to do was see the postings, download the attached pictures and then view them side-by-side for herself to see the obvious fraud. Oddly, this simple process proved to be too difficult for her to carry out.
An apparent reason for LDW’s distrust was apparently because of a similar “photo fraud” reported by Hari Sampath regarding a photo claiming to have captured Sai Baba amongst clouds (which may require a dedicated blog to discuss!) was doubtful, according to her:
I don’t belive [sic] anythig [sic] unless I see evidence. And esecially [sic] here since I’ve seen such manipulation on your side myself.
Let’s keep in mind that I had just (twice!) mentioned that the material was available as well as providing the direct links to the posts at hand, which had the photos attached for anyone to download and see for themselves. Even if there was a reason to be suspicious based on similar issues with photographic fakes, this was completely unwarranted here considering that the pictures in question were freely available. Not just in postings, but on the Web too!
In any case I figured that I had better respond to LDW’s claim of manipulation, and I simply related that these exchanges had taken place while I was still a Sai devotee discussing the issue with fellow devotees. As a devotee, I had nothing to lose by pointing out this photographic fraud. To have the fraud confirmed by a fellow devotee after I sent him a copy of the original ISKCON photo proved that other people had recognised it, even if some of them tried to justify it with a “Swami wills everything” explanation. I also pointed out that since fellow Sai devotees had seen both the pictures and admitted that the “Sai Krishna” picture was a fake after considering the evidence, this put LDW’s own claim into doubt since she claimed not to believe anything without evidence.
One has to wonder why she failed to see what her fellow devotees could see in the plain and clear light of day.
Even if it is so that the two pictures need to be seen for themselves, side-by-side, here they are. See the difference!
In another post I provided a commentary on both the photos. Regarding the “Sai Krishna” version, I noted how convenient it was for the edges of the photo to be blacked out. I speculated that this could be because the producer of this photo wanted to erase as much of the original picture as possible just in case anybody recognised it as an ISKCON picture. Even with the considerable blackout, a gopi can be seen clearly. Also, the colour of the face is different from that of the arms. In the ISKCON edition, the full picture can be seen (wonder of wonders!), the colour of Krishna’s face and arms is consistent and the gopi can be fully seen. If that isn’t obvious enough, I don’t know what is.
To erase all doubt, I posted both the pictures in the ‘Photos’ section of the club just in case anyone else – in the future – would ridiculously attempt to argue that both the pictures should be seen side-by-side. I then penned a post concluding that, considering all of the available evidence that was plain for all to see, it is obvious that the “Sai Krishna miracle photo” is a proven fraud and should be treated as such. Of course I also noted how LDW seemed to have no comment on the matter, which was hardly surprising.
-|-|-|)(|-|-|-
Speaking of surprise, one has to wonder what Sai Baba himself thinks of all these shenanigans. A devotee incidentally posted a link in the Yahoo Groups that detailed an interview transcript by Connie Shaw which apparently occurred in January 1992. Veterans will remember that Connie Shaw is the devotee who is famous for documenting and speaking on the healings that have occurred via the infamous ‘Golden Lingam’ photo. I believe that she has written a book of her experiences, as well as maintaining a devotional website. By all accounts, I think her words would be reliable. Interestingly, Shaw appears to have spoken to Sai Baba about this very photo. It’s worth reading just to see what Sai Baba says:
Connie showed Baba the recent photo making the rounds and asked if the so-called Krishna photo with Baba’s face on it were legitimate, as it looked very suspicious to her and she suspected it was a computer rendering with a fraudulent story attached to the photo re its origen[sic]. Baba said, “This is artificial. It is (like a) painting.” Connie asked, “You mean, as on the computer, Swami?” Baba replied, “Yes, I don’t like artificial (things). He tossed it down. Connie thanked Him for confirming it.
And here is a screenshot of the exchange that, at the time of writing, is still online on Shaw’s webspace:
After noting how I should explain to Shaw that, rather than believe Sai Baba’s explanation, she should be apprised of the facts regarding this picture; how it is really an ISKCON picture with Krishna’s face cut out and replaced with Sai Baba’s sneery mug. Lisa then burst forth with:
The truth is that probably someone like you from ISKCON created the fake in an attempt to discredit Sai Baba. Just think, he knows who it is.
*sigh*
Conveniently forgetting that I was a Sai devotee at the time this all took place on the Sai Unity group, the entire incident shows that I had nothing to lose (or gain) by testifying that this picture was a fraud. In fact, I could have kept quiet and allowed my fellow devotees to delude themselves that this was a miracle picture. “Wow! Sai Baba shows himself as Krishna! Wow wow!” It only showed that I have a great love for the truth and I cannot stand to see untruth reign, even if it meant sacrificing the credibility of my then guru. And truth will always reveal itself.
This is also an appropriate place to speak a little about denial. In regards to this issue, it had been claimed that:
- This issue had been discussed and resolved on the Sai Unity group.
- I provided direct links to the posts (and attachments) at hand.
- I uploaded them to the ‘Photos’ section for all to see for themselves.
- I commented on the inconsistencies of the photos.
- Sai Baba himself apparently confirmed that this photo was a fake.
We can easily see that LDW was all along operating on the understanding that the “Sai Krishna” photo was a real miracle photo, and that it was upto me to prove it’s fradulence. Having proved it, to be accused of being an ISKCON agent and creating a photo to discredit Sai Baba is truly a subject where the denial of the devotees becomes apparent. Denial? What about brainwashing? In response to that, Lisa screamed:
You’re the one who’s brainwashed. You can ONLY view things from ONE perspective because you are so brainwashed by your OWN stupidity. Facts don’t matter to you because you love your lies. You’re so perverted you think it’s funny people might die as long as it’s for a good cause you slimey [sic] piece of mud.
Taught-
This picture has surfaced again, this time attached with a different story. It is a source of constant bewilderment to me how Sai devotees thoughtlessly and recklessly indulge in mischievous propaganda in order to uplift the flagging profile of their ailing guru.
Excerpts from an interview with Madhu Pandit: Chairman of World’s largest NGO run School Meal Program, Akshaya Patra.
Question: Why the name Askhaya Patra to the mid-day meal program?
Madhu Pandit: The divine vessel ‘Akshaya Patra’ of Mahabharata symbolizes unlimited portions that can feed countless mouths. But this ‘vessel’ sought a few willing human hearts, minds and hands to feed ONE MILLION everyday.
Question: To whom all do you attribute this success of feeding one million everyday?
Madhu Pandit: Cooks, cleaners, drivers, guards, supervisors, managers, donors, government authorities, advisors, board members and missionaries were all inspired and activated to make this possible.
Question: What really motivated you to initiate and make this movement so successful?
Madhu Pandit: When we began we had not the slightest idea of this scale. But someone was watching within all of us and noted our wanting to do more and more and willing to battle everyday to beat the hurdles. He kept opening new paths , kept fanning our spirits , pushed us bit by bit up the scale of feeding more and more children month after month and year after year .As His grace fell on a million children, we were graced with great lessons too. That, big things can be done when what is to be done is greater than all of us and that God helps those who help themselves, especially to help others beyond themselves. He gave that extra direction, that extra support, that extra determination and fanned the spark of desire to feed a blazing ONE MILLION! He took us that extra distance we never conceived of when we started. And He rewarded our humble efforts by fulfilling our ever growing dream. Blessed are we who could experience this.
Question: How do you think this movement will bear an effect on the society?
Madhu Pandit: One thing is certain from this experience. Boundless compassion is waiting to explode into this world to lessen the suffering provided we involve more and more willing human hearts, minds and hands to deliver His blessings upon many more millions in the years to come. We are determined to seek out for more and more such willing people out in the world who do not know that many more millions mouths are waiting for the blessing to transform their lives. Their smiles will transform our lives too. A pride that humbles us, yet spirits us to reach our next target of five million.
We are happy to state that we have achieved our earlier mission of feeding 1 million children by 2010, in early 2009. We continue to reach out to more and more children, giving each one the equal opportunity to unlock their true potential. We now aspire to reach out to 5 million children by 2020.
Says Madhu Pandit president of ISKCON Bangalore
Jan 12, BANGALORE, INDIA (SUN) — Shanka Britha dasa Talking… an interview by Chaitanya Simha dasa.
Recently Sriman Shanka Britha dasa, the founder and President of ISKCON Bangalore, along with three other founding members, HH Amiyavilas Swami, HG Ananta Padmanabha das, and HG Poorna Brahma das, withdrew their support in the court case filed by agents of ISKCON Mumbai against Madhupandit dasa and other devotees of ISKCON Bangalore. The following is an interview I had with Shanka Britha dasa:
1. What made you to withdraw your support of the GBC in the court case against ISKCON Bangalore devotees?
SBD: First and foremost, I did not want to be a party for those whose only agenda is to send Sri Madhupandit dasa to jail/prison, all in the name of protecting Srila Prabhupada’s legacy. Sri Madhupandit dasa’s “only” crime is that he has boldly rejected the ‘bogus Acarya’ system that still continues in disguise within ISKCON.
This bogus Acarya-disciple relationship provides a kind of justification to all those who are ambitious to project themselves as “true followers” of Srila Prabhupada and his ISKCON movement. That in turn fulfills their own ambitions for profit, adoration, worship and distinction. All in the name of carrying on Srila Prabhupada’ s legacy.
2. What is your opinion on the court cases?
SBD: I was appointed as the President by none other than Srila Prabhupada, way back in 1976, whereas H.H. Jayapataka Swami has outrageously lied in the court of law that he appointed me as President of ISKCON Bangalore. He was not even GBC in 1976 – not to speak of being GBC for South India. My first GBC was the then H.G. Balimardan prabhu and then H.H. Hansadutta Swami. Jayapataka Swami became GBC only in 1979 Mayapur GBC meeting.
They not only deliberately kept me in total darkness of the whole case from 2003 till 2008, but were lying to the judge that I am not willing to come to court for witness. Why did they do this? The world should know. The answer is they did not want me to speak the real truth.
I also saw the written affidavit given by Jayapataka Swami to the court, wherein he proclaims that H.H. Tamal Krishna Goswami reprimanded me for registering ISKCON Karnataka. This is completely false. I registered ISKCON Karnataka society under the approval of H.H. Hansadutta Swami purely for furthering the growth and development of ISKCON in this part of the world, and primarily for getting assistance from the Government of Karnataka with a suitable land to build a temple in Bangalore for expanding the preaching work.
To that effect I did what was needed and registered the society as per the law of the land. I started the society in Bangalore along with my Godbrothers, Ananthapadmanapa prabhu as Vice President, Amiyavilas prabhu (now Amiyavilas Swami) as the Secretary, Poornabrahma prabhu as Treasurer, Ramashradda prabhu and others with a few life members.
No one ever reprimanded, even till 1988, when I was the President of ISKCON Tirupathi. And nobody brought up the fact of another society registered in Bangalore as an issue.
On the contrary, Jayapataka Swami sent his then favorite disciple, at that point of time, Sri Madhupandit das to meet me and obtain my resignation letter as the President of ISKCON Karnataka. Accordingly I submitted the same. Jayapataka Swami and Bhanu Maharaj with other devotees became the members of the board of ISKCON Karnataka. The land application was made by Madhupandit das in the name of Bangalore society, for which they had consented. At that point Jayapataka Swami even wanted Madhupandit das to apply for a separate tax exemption. They sailed together all the way up to year 1999. Only when Madhupandit das questioned the Acarya practice in vogue at that time did he become a villain to Jayapataka Swami. As inspired by the final words of Srila Prabhupada, Madhupandit das boldly, risking his future in ISKCON, rejected Jayapataka Swami’s Acarya-ship that he was falsely claiming.
3. But why are ISKCON leaders claiming that Madhupandit das has stolen Srila Prabhupada’s property?
SBD: My question to them is, can they come and prove in person as to what it is that he has stolen? The property is existing in the name of the society, which is one of the biggest temples of ISKCON. The whole world knows all other achievements of Bangalore yatra till date. Accounts are being audited year after year on the Akshaya Patra. The accounts are audited by the world famous KPMG group of auditors. Madhupandit das is very much in the temple and has not run away, like others who directly threatened the GBC, but latter they ran away with millions of Srila Prabhupada’s BBT money.
Every thing is open to everyone and they can come in person to know more about the activities in Bangalore. But instead of this, they make a hue and cry that Srila Prabhupada’s property being stolen away. What they really mean is that Madhupandit is a threat to their dubious ways of controlling the property, disciples, and profits to their personal accounts in the disguise of ‘Guru Dakshina’. This is the real story behind.
Srila Prabhupada never appointed the eleven acaryas. He also never encouraged or desired the centralization of power plan that was attempted by some of his senior men while His Divine Grace was on the planet.
In one incident, while handling the restaurant property of H.H. Sudama Maharaj in Hawaii, Srila Prabhupada dealt it in the following way: when it was brought to the notice of HDG that Sudama was not willing to give up the ownership or title of the restaurant, Srila Prabhupada told him that since Sudama was his disciple, and as everything of a disciple belonged to the Spiritual Master, all that Sudama had was his.
Quote – “So as disciple you belong to me and that means everything of yours also belong to me. Now whose is the property??” Sudama replied that it belonged to him. Srila Prabhupada asked him again, but Sudama insisted that the property was his. Finally, Srila Prabhupada gave it up and Sudama left. The devotees present suggested to Prabhupada that they should file a court case. Srila Prabhupada disagreed with this and said that as Vaishnavas, we should not force anyone. Krishna’s service is based on “Love and Trust”. So, if someone is not willing to give it on the basis of Love and Trust, that is alright but we should not fight in the court like the materialists. This is the quality of HDG. He not only preached, but lived a life as per the mood of Vaishnavas, and in his last days on this earth he told all his disciples not to fight amongst themselves.
In the case of Madhupandit das, he has not put any property in his personal name. All the property is in the name of the society and he is very nicely managing it with a group of devotees. They also have a governing committee to manage the affairs. He has not hidden any money in any Swiss bank account nor has he diverted any wealth away from the society, as done by some ISKCON Gurus. He is only against the bogus Acarya-disciple ownership and the evils connected to it, in whatever disguise it is followed at present. He is only concerned that Srila Prabhupada be given the rightful ownership of everything and everyone in ISKCON.
In my humble opinion, the Vaishnava community should come forward and join hands with him to really glorify and keep Srila Prabhupada in the center as the only Acarya of ISKCON for the next ten thousand years.
In my close interaction with Madhupandit in the last few months and in my opinion, he is not against the ‘paramparik guru system’, but the bogus Guru/Acarya system of physical parampara by appointment or selection of some committee, as ISKCON is following now – a system which was not approved even by the founder of Gaudiya Math.
4. So you are saying that the parampara is not lost just because Guru has left the planet and no one in flesh and blood is authorized by him?
SBD: Even when Krishna spoke to Arjuna 5,000 years ago about parampara being lost with time, the so-called physical parampara was there. Yet, the essence of His teachings were lost. And hence he stated that the parampara was lost. The following extracts from Srila Prabhupada’s folio will make this clear:
“Now, here also it is stated, sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa: ‘My dear Arjuna, oh, you are the great hero. Now, that Bhagavat-gita, the instruction which I imparted to the sun-god, was coming by disciplic succession. Now it is lost.’
Now, we have to note down this point. Why it is lost?… Why it is lost? Do you think that there was no learned man during that time? During Krishna’s time? Oh, there were many learned sages. Not only one, or two, there were dozens of learned sages. But still, the Lord said, Krishna said, that “They…. That knowledge which I exactly imparted to sun-god is now lost.” How it is lost? And still how it is lost? The lost means that the purport of Bhagavad-gita. That is the purport which Krishna wants to stress. So any student of Bhagavad-gita must note it, that Bhagavad-gita commented by a person – he may be very scholar in the material sense, but that scholarship will not help to comment on the Bhagavad-gita”.
(BG Lecture, July13, 1966, New York)
“I also thank you very much for your appreciation of my books, and letters and for my speaking in the meetings. They are not my words, as I have repeatedly informed you that I am simply the hearer of the message from Lord Chaitanya through the disciplic succession and I do not make any addition or subtraction. Similarly, if you all carry these words successively, then the transcendental parampra system will be exactly maintained and people in general will be benefited. I am very much obliged to my disciples because they are realizing the importance of Krishna Consciousness Movement and it is very much encouraging to me. Please, therefore, continue the standard of understanding. Read regularly our books and try to expand and preach the philosophy as far as possible.”
(Letter to Bhagavan, January 10, 1970, Los Angeles)
5. Why did you shift your support to Madhupandit das?
SBD: In the year 2003 when Jayapataka Swami, Doyaram, and their henchman Anukul Keshav (Ashok Gupta) approached me for help in the court case, he told me that it is for Prabhupada’s sake they have come to me. I extended my support blindly till 2008. They kept me in total darkness. I had no idea of their actual motivation or plans. Around 6 to 7 months back Doyaram das came to me seeking clarification. During this time he personally revealed to me his plan to win the court case by filing some criminal case on Madhupandit using my signature, and not only attack Madhupandit das but also to put him in Jail. After this he wanted to wind up the society I had established in Bangalore. This was a shock to me and his behavior was totally avaishnava. Every thing started to become clear to me. At this point I was being used to destroy a Vaishnava’s service and even his life. All in the name of justice by people who are unscrupulous.
It was then I decided to go to the court myself and follow up the case. To my surprise and shock, I discovered volumes of false statements, my forged signature by Doyaram’s camp, and completely false statement of Jayapataka Swami about the earlier days of ISKCON Bangalore.
Further, as I closely followed the case I also discovered all the crooked and criminal angles being adopted by ISKCON Mumbai’s camp. All in the name of Srila Prabhupada.
ISKCON Mumbai’s claim that Madhupandit prabhu has stolen Srila Prabhupada’s property is the wildest outrageous allegation. Now, my godbrothers who were part of the ISKCON Bangalore society, namely Amiyavilas Swami, Ananthapadmanabha prabhu and Poorna Brahma prabhu, are also supporting the cause of ISKCON Bangalore, after they too realized the game plan of ISKCON Mumbai.
I have enough records to prove that ISKCON Bangalore is a legitimate society registered for spreading Krishna Consciousness, as desired by Srila Prabhupada. Whatever I did (by registering) in this regard would have been approved by HDG Srila Prabhupada if I had approached him in person. Srila Prabhupada was the most practical thinking Krishna Conscious Acarya, unlike the self-proclaimed bogus Acarya’s whose only agenda is to control property, followers in the name of Srila Prabhupada.
Whatever is happening to Madhupandit Prabhu today was the same kind of attack that was unleashed upon me, way back in 1980′s. Thousands of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples left ISKCON with great pain in heart. When will the day come soon that this will be put to end?! So that Srila Prabhupada’s teachings are not misused by self-proclaimed Acaryas/Gurus in disguise of protecting ISKCON.
It was Srila Prabhupada’s mandate that the Life Patrons enrolled by all the ISKCON centers be honored as guests in every other center all over the world, and be provided with accommodation. This is the basis of the International Life Patron Membership program. Lakhs of Life Patron members have been enrolled all over the world under this scheme. Thousands of Life Patron members from all over India and abroad have availed of the Guest House facility at ISKCON-Bangalore in the last ten years. Similarly thousands of Life Patron members enrolled by ISKCON-Bangalore have availed of the guest house facilities in ISKCON centers around the world, wherever available, over the last two decades.
Since the past few months, ISKCON-Mumbai and ISKCON-Tirupati have started denying guest house accommodation to the Life Patron members of ISKCON-Bangalore. This is yet another device to harass the Life Patrons enrolled by ISKCON-Bangalore. However, in ISKCON-Bangalore, under the management of Madhu Pandit Dasa, Chancalapati Dasa and others, we continue to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instruction, and continue to graciously offer guest house facility to the Life Patron members of other ISKCON centers in India and abroad.
In spite of the order of the Hon’ble High Court of Karnataka against interfering with the affairs of ISKCON-Bangalore, mischief is being created by ISKCON-Mumbai by misusing the list of life patrons of ISKCON-Bangalore by shooting out unsigned letters of allegations against Madhu Pandit Dasa to all the donors. This has necessitated clarifying our position to all of you through this supplementary issue.
Those patrons/donors needing accommodation in Mumbai, Tirupati and Chennai, are requested to call directly to 080-2347 1956 / 2357 8346 Extn: 4107 / 351. ISKCON-Bangalore has made alternative accommodation in these places for ISKCON-Bangalore life patrons/donors.
The devotees of ISKCON-Bangalore were shocked and horrified to learn of an email correspondence among the self-proclaimed ‘gurus’ revealing diabolical plans to suppress Madhu Pandit Dasa! The very same self-proclaimed ‘guru’ whom Madhu Pandit Dasa had been misled to worship for over fifteen years as ‘as good as God’ (on his claim that he was appointed guru by Srila Prabhupada), was planning to fabricate false criminal cases against him to quell the deliberations that he and the devotees of ISKCON-Bangalore had raised against the current guru system:
* “By the way, our new legal advisors have given us some new ideas that civil route is very slow, but the criminal route is quicker. Madhu Pandit Dasa has good reputation, but it does not take long to lose it if we do criminal cases against him.” Jayapataka Swami (GBC member and one of the self-proclaimed guru), (2001) email message TEXT PAMHO:4259580.
Added to this, the self-proclaimed ‘gurus’ are unable to come to terms with the stellar growth of ISKCON-Bangalore’s activities all over India, especially through the Akshaya Patra program, which is feeding about ten lakh children everyday! This has been possible only by the blessings of Their Lordships Sri Sri Radha Krishna-chandra and Srila Prabhupada. However, this growth is perceived by the self-proclaimed ‘gurus’ as an implicit strengthening of the position advocated by the devotees of ISKCON-Bangalore in the guru system debate.
The devotees of ISKCON-Bangalore are determined to stand together against all odds to see that ISKCON-Bangalore, a legally independent society registered in Karnataka, is dedicated unto Srila Prabhupada’s service alone, and not for the self-aggrandizement of the self-proclaimed ‘gurus’. ISKCON-Bangalore is Srila Prabhupada’s society and only his will may prevail here.
The organisation finds itself in a holy mess after students file a $400-milion sexual abuse suit
DAMNING CHARGES
Around 1,000 children were alleged to have been sexually, physically and emotionally abused in ISKCON schools.
The abuse is said to have taken place in 11 schools in the US and two in India between 1972 and the early 1990s.
Many of those abused reportedly became alcoholics and drug-users later. Some even committed suicide.
The late founder Swami Prabhupada is also an accused in the case.
Controversy hovers over them like a halo. Two years ago, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) was rocked by reports of sexual and physical abuse at the society’s gurukuls (boarding schools) in both India and the US. Hare Krishna leaders had immediately moved in with a series of damage-control measures, including a promise to set aside $250,000 (Rs 12 crore) annually to investigate the abuse and to provide counselling and financial help to the victims.
Last week, however, ISKCON relived the nightmare when 44 former students of these gurukuls filed a $400-million (Rs 1,800 crore) lawsuit, alleging years of sexual, physical and emotional torture. The suit was filed in Dallas by high-flying Texas attorney Windle Turley, who had successfully sued a Catholic archdiocese in Texas for over $50 million in sexual abuse cases last year. Turley believes that at least 1,000 children — some as young as three years old — were abused at the gurukuls. He has been quoted as saying that the abuse was of an “unthinkable” nature and included rape, sexual abuse, physical torture and emotional terror.
There are also allegations that teaching positions were granted to sexual predators so that they could have access to children and that young girls from the boarding schools were offered as brides to older men who had donated money to the organisation. The wrongdoings are alleged to have begun in 1972 at ISKCON’s first school in Dallas and continued into the early 1990s.
For the first time, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada — Hare Krishna founder who died in 1977 — has been implicated as one of the accused. Founded in 1966, ISKCON today has a million devotees, runs 50 day schools, 50 spiritual centres, 60 rural communities and 60 restaurants in the US alone.
According to the lawsuit, Swami Prabhupada had ruled that children should be sent to boarding schools at the age of five so that they could learn to become pure devotees.
In 1972, when Swami Prabhupada controlled the institution, he was informed about the extensive physical and sexual abuse of minors but he had concealed the wrongdoings from the public as well as the parents, confiding only in a handful of close advisers, the complaint states. The abuse occurred at 11 gurukuls in America and at two in India. Of these only one gurukul exists today in America, says the suit.
The suit goes on to say that teachers and leaders in Indian schools were among the worst offenders and many of them had also been in schools in the US. It is, however, quick to point out that the boarding schools in India were “staffed and controlled by appointees of ISKCON who were, for most part, assigned from the US”.
The suit also alleges that a significant number of ISKCON children have become alcoholics and drug users, with many having committed suicide. They suffer from a profound sense of guilt, helplessness and loss of self-esteem, it says.
Turley and his associates are demanding $200 million in actual damages and an equal amount in punitive damages, saying that the second demand seeks to “punish and deter outrageous conduct carried out in heedless and reckless disregard for the safety of plaintiffs”. Turley dismisses the ISKCON claim that the organisation does not even have a fraction of the money sought by the plaintiffs. The critics believe that the property and assets of the ISKCON temples would amount to over $500 million.
While the teachers and leaders named in the suit are non-Indians (with the exception of the founder), several Indians who were on the governing body of ISKCON find themselves being named in the suit. Among them is Naveen Khurana who is described as the registered agent for Alachua, the Florida-based ISKCON Foundation.
Another accused is Gopal Khanna, a Montreal businessman and an executor of Swami Prabhupada’s estate. Most of the defendants refuse to comment on the case, seeking time to read the complaint and prepare their defence.
ISKCON was first forced to confront the problem of student abuse at one of its meetings four years ago when 10 former pupils announced that they had been regularly beaten and caned at school, denied medicines and sexually molested and raped at knife point.
“I remember being made to sleep naked in a cold bathtub for a month,” disclosed Jahnavi Dasi, 26, who was sent to a boarding school in Los Angeles as a four-year-old. “I had wet my bed and it was easier for them to make me sleep in the tub than to change my sheets,” she had said. Jahnavi also said that she had gone into a diabetic coma for three weeks because “they neglected to take me to a doctor”.
The meeting led to serious introspection within ISKCON. “We need to get to the bottom of this,” Anuttama Dasa, ISKCON North American director of communications, had said. “And to the best of our ability, we have to do whatever we can to try and repair the damage to the children and show them that we do care as a religious society,” he had added. A sociology professor, E. Burke Rochford Jr from Middlebury College in Vermont, had also been commissioned to carry out a study, which ended up confirming several cases of sexual abuse.
However, Turley and the 44 plaintiffs think ISKCON has not done enough and are determined to seek retribution for a scarred childhood.
Some time go we were able to read article on the Sun written by Janmastami dasa entitled, “The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But…”. What caught my attention was a legal document attached to the article. These are photos of the testimony of witness Dharmatma das (Dennis Gorrick) regarding the murder of Sulocana das (Steven Bryant). I don’t know if readers really noted the contents of the letter. Usually such subjects raise a lot of dust, but this one went by quietly, unnoticed. I would like to focus attention of readers on parts of this testimony, which particularly deals with the involvement of Radhanath Swami in this case. The characters in this testimony are Dharmatma (Dennis Gorrick), Kuladri (Arthur Villa), Radhanath (Richard Slavin), Hayagriva (Howard Wheeler), Tapahpunja (Terry Sheldon), Tirtha (Thomas Drescher) and Kirtanananda (Keith Ham, Bhaktipada, Mr. Swami, Number One).
From Dharmatma’s testimony it is clear that he was disturbed by murder, and quite disturbed also was Kuladri das (Arthur Villa). Kuladri mentioned to Dharmatma that this murder should not happen, and how he told them (Radhanath, Hayagriva and Tapahpunja) not to do it. He mentioned that Radhanatha (Mr. Slavin), Hayagriva (Mr. Wheeler) and Tapahpunja (Mr. Sheldon) were pushing like crazy for the murder to happen.
In our ISKCON slang, we know exactly what ” pushing like crazy” means. It means they were pushing real hard, they were really into it, working hard for it to happen over an extended period of time. And Dharmatma mentions Radhanath in the first place. One can conclude from this that since Radhanatha was the first one who came to Dharmatma’s mind in connection with the murder, it may be that he was the main organizer. This will be later supported by another incident.
Later on we can read how Tapahpunja (Mr. Sheldon) was describing to Dharmatma about how neat it was, that the demon (Sulocana) was killed on the Appearance day of Nrsimhadeva. Dharmatma states that he was freaked by this. Tapahpunja was present at the murder, and he was describing it in detail.
Sulocana dasa
And then starts the description of an arrangement for escape money. Now Tapahpunja and Tirtha (Drescher) had to get out of the country, so they needed money. Tapahpunja came to get money, but Dharmatma told him to go to Number One (Bhaktipada, Mr. Swami). The testimony then continues to describe how the next day, Mr. Swami along with **rot not (Mr. Slavin) came to pick the money. Please note that at this point of testimony, Dharmatma actually used the name Radhanath, but the court stenographer, not knowing what that word Radhanath is, typed it as “**rot not”. Rot not sounded similar to Radhanath, so the typist wrote that, preceding it with **, which shows that stenographer was not sure about the correctness of the typed word.
So, Kirtanananda and Radhanath came with the car to Dharmatma to pick-up the money for murderers Tirtha and Tapahpunja, to help them escape out of country. Kirtanananda asked Dharmatma to give 6,000 dollars. Dharmatma went inside the house to get it, and gave it to Kirtanananda, who waited in the car.
Then Dharmatma describes how he asked about the purpose of money, if it was for the murderers to get out of country. And in answer, Kirtanananda and Radhanath smiled, and nodded their head in confirmation, that yes, this was for the murderers to be able to escape out of the country. And then Kirtanananda and Radhanath drove off.
This testimony by Dharmatma clearly implicates Radhanath in the murder of Sulocana. Radhanatha was involved in arranging for the murder, being one of those who were “pushing like crazy for murder to happen”, possibly the leader. His leadership position in the conspiracy against Sulocana is confirmed also by his picking-up the escape money, together with Kirtanananda.
One thing was the preparation of Sulocana’s murder, and a second thing was making arrangements for the murderers to escape the country. Only Radhanath was present on both occasions, which shows that he was involved more than others.
The GBC was confronted with this matter last year, and their response was published on Dandavats. Basically, what they did was to say that the US Attorney said that Radhanath was not involved, and that’s it. Therefore the GBC concluded that they need not take allegations against Radhanath seriously. But to cover their backs, they nevertheless stated:
“GBC recommends that any person in possession of newly discovered evidence regarding the New Vrindavana events present such information to the U.S. Attorney’s Office or other appropriate legal agency. If any subsequent investigation might ensue, the GBC will fully cooperate with it.”
So, what the GBC is saying is: According to present evidence, Radhanath is not guilty. But if he later proves to be guilty, and the case is reopened, the GBC will cooperate.
The GBC was not able to fully guarantee for Radhanath, so they felt the need to protect themselves in case Radhanath goes down anyway, by stating that they will cooperate with any appropriate legal agency. The GBC leaves it up to the legal system to decide whether Radhanath is guilty or not.
The GBC’s approach is interesting, since many ISKCON gurus were suspended without any involvement of the legal system – Vaisnavas have their own rules for who is bonafide guru. Vaisnava expectations for guru are higher than the state’s expectations for a good citizen. Clearly, the GBC considers Radhanath as a bonafide Guru, no matter his involvement in murder. Is involvement in murder of a devotee, 20 years later, not disqualification enough for one being an ISKCON guru?
In my opinion, Dharmatma’s testimony proves without doubt that Radhanatha was involved as the leading organizer of murder. Of course, the case probably cannot be reopened now legally. But the evidence is clear. Radhanath was involved, and no matter what the GBC now does, it is clear that Radhanath was involved in the murder of Sulocana.
Of course, while defending Radhanath, the GBC didn’t stop with their own statement. They also arranged for Radhanath’s statement on the matter. And besides glorifying himself as very humble, and tactfully criticizing and disqualifying Janmastami in the eyes of entire ISKCON, Radhanath also states that, “every single allegation against me is totally false. I was not involved in any criminal activity.”
Radhanath last year openly stated, in front of entire world, that every allegation against him is false, and that he was never involved in any criminal activity.
With the testimony from Dharmatma, this statement of Radhanatha’s doesn’t stand strong. It is clear that Radhanath was lying regarding his involvement in the murder. He lied to the GBC, in front of the entire ISKCON society. Now, what does this make him? Clearly, a liar. Why was he lying?
The GBC can be of the opinion that involvement in murder of a devotee, 20 years later, does not disqualify one from being an ISKCON guru. How about 20 years of lying about it, even to the GBC? Would this shameless lying disqualify one from being an ISKCON guru?
Devotees are merciful and compassionate. If Radhanath was involved in murder, as the facts prove, and if he admitted it years ago, most devotees would not blame him for his neophyte fanaticism, but would forgive him. Of course, he could not be a big guru and acarya, but he could be a nice devotee, an inspiration for many. But clearly, he was hiding this. He was lying all the time, to everybody, even the GBC. And the GBC made us believe that all is fine. Radhanath tricked the GBC and all of us.
The facts are against him now. Everybody knows that he was involved in the murder of Sulocana, and his lies will not help in hiding it anymore. Will he admit now, and beg for the mercy of the devotees, and thus reveal his material ambitions for position and adoration as an ISKCON guru? Or will he keep hiding it, continuing with his show of humility, to his own disgrace and the disgrace of all his faithful followers? And for the GBC, will they keep such a cheating, lying guru as their very best, or will they slowly and quietly push him aside, allowing him to move into the background and retire?
In any case, it is finally clear now. Radhanath was very much involved in the murder of Sulocana, and he lied about it repeatedly and shamelessly. Such a cunning person cannot represent Srila Prabhupada as guru in the Vaisnava sampradaya. If he has even a particle of decency left, he will immediately step down from his position as guru, and commit his future life to humble menial service of servants of the servants, which he likes to advertise so much.
Radhanath implicated in Dharmatma’s testimony
A. Arthur was quite disturbed, as I was, at the fact that Mr. Bryant had been murdered in California.
Q. Did he say anything to you about the murder?
A. Well, in discussing how disturbed we were and how surprised we were, he had mentioned to me that –
MS VANSUSTERN: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. He had mentioned how he was very disturbed and how it shouldn’t have been done like that. And that how Mr. Slavin, Mr. Wheeler and Mr. Sheldon were pushing like crazy for this to happen, and how he had told them not to do it.
By: B V Shiva Shankar
Date: 2010-01-13
Place: Bangalore
Newspaper: DNA, Bangalore
Function Photo
American devotee of Krishna keeps bothersome chapter of life out of his ‘autobiography’
The Monday release of an autobiography by Radhanath Swamy, a senior ISKCON seer, has shocked many devotees. The Journey Home — Autobiography of an American Swamy skips a significant chapter about the murder of Sulokana Das murder case, that shook the American chapter of ISKCON in 1985.
Radhanath said he skipped the episode because he thought it was not necessary for the story of the book: “The book is a memoir and a travelogue, so why should I mention each and everything here?” However, the author narrates his life story in a first person’s account, so the book reads as an autobiography.
“If an autobiography skips an incident, then we must call the life of the author a big lie,” said a devotee of ISKCON.
The murder of Sulokana Das, a member of New Brindavan, an ISKCON branch in West Virginia, came to light in early 1980′s and the US court convicted Kirtananda Swamy to whom Radhanath was closely associated.
Kirtanananda was released two years ago, after serving a 20-year jail term. Radhanath said that he was close to Kirthananda until the murder charges were framed against him. ” I broke all ties once I came to know about the murder.”
Top cop at launch
Shankar Mahadev Bidari, the police commissioner, was one of the guests at the book release. “The murder occurred and was heard in America. Why should I know about it?” he said.
Who is Radhanath Swamy?
Radhanath Swamy was previously known as Richard Slavin, and he is an American born in Chicago. Slavin gravitated toward ISKCON in 1972, when Srila Prabhupada propagated the society across the US.
After changing his name to Radhanath, he played a key role in forming New Brindavan in West Verginia, and was seen as a close disciple of Kirtnananda Swamy.
October 10, 2010 — Dear Akruranatha, first of all we did not criticize anyone. The Gaudiya Matha folks attacked Srila Prabhupada first, they came out and said Srila Prabhupada’s ideas are wrong; He is wrong to have women in the temples (for example), and they went to the Madras newspapers to lodge a public complaint about us for having women in the temple.
Srila Prabhupada had to counter in the Madras newspapers saying, Swami Yati is seen every year dancing with thousands of widows, so at least my women are married. Srila Prabhupada was merely defending, you are confusing who is attacking and who is defending, they attacked Srila Prabhupada, he had to defend from their attacks, that does not mean he was attacking, he was defending.
Later they all ganged up and attacked his jiva-tattva position. You are implying that Srila Prabhupada and us are doing the attacking, no, they have attacked him and us all along, we are merely defending what Srila Prabhupada said. Are you saying we should allow people to criticize Srila Prabhupada? Why? Anyway it is simple: the teachings of Narayana Maharaja are exactly that of the Christians: (a) Some FAVORITE children – souls originate with God at birth, and they are always in heaven / vaikuntha, eternally, they never fall. However, (b) because God is a mean tyrant, He promotes whimsical / uneven / unequal justice to His children, thus some children souls are CONDEMNED at birth, they do not originate with Him and they therefore fall into the kingdom of Satan / Maya / Illusion.
This is what they taught me in Sunday School when I was five years old. Narayan Maharaja has not advanced past what I was being taught at the age of five, I am past that stage already.
Srila Prabhupada’s teaching are vastly more sophisticate than this uneven, unequal, tyrannical God idea of the Christian Church and Narayana Maharaja. God is not an unjust tyrant, He starts out ALL OF HIS CHILDREN in an EQUAL capacity. He is not biased against some children, and towards some other children, God is not a tweedle brained small minded sectarianist like us, He is GOD. He is EQUAL to ALL His children, period. I am surprised that you think we should allow this uneven justice idea to be taught, it makes God look like a TYRANT, He is NOT! I just caught a teeny little black mouse today in my plastic door trap, yep, another poor soul who has not originated in Vaikuntha at birth, so he had to fall because God is a mean spirited sectarianist, and become a suffering like anything little mouse. Sorry, you are a lawyer Akruranatha, you of all people should know, God’s mercy would be EQUAL JUSTICE TO ALL, at their birth, not favorite sons, this is NOT what God / Krishna is. Therefore, we ALL originated in Krishna’s lila and sport, not just some politically biased fortunate sons, ALL of the sons. ys pd
The Hare Krishna mantra appears in a number of famous songs, notably those sung by The Beatles (and solo works of John Lennon, George Harrison (notably on his hit “My Sweet Lord”) and Ringo Starr). There is a reference to singing kirtan of Hare Krishna mantra in The Beatles’ “I Am The Walrus” (the line “Elementary penguins singing Hare Krishna”). Ringo Starr’s song “It Don’t Come Easy” contains the words “Hare Krishna!” and was written with the help of George Harrison. Later Paul McCartney produced a single with a picture of Krishna riding on a swan on the cover, although there wasn’t any chanting of Krishna’s names inside. Of the four Beatles members, only Harrison was actually Hindu, and after he posthumously received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2009, his son Dhani Harrison uttered the phrase “Hare Krishna” during the ceremony.[74]
The mantra also appears in The Pretenders’ Boots of Chinese Plastic.[75] One song from 1969 by the Radha Krsna Temple, simply entitled Hare Krsna Mantra reached no. 12 in the UK music chart and appeared on the music show Top of the Pops. It also made the no.1 slot in both German and Czechoslovakian music charts. Less well-known but equally relevant to fans of pop music culture are recordings of the Hare Krishna mantra by The Fugs on their 1968 album Tenderness Junction (featuring poet Allen Ginsberg) and by Nina Hagen.[76] Also, certain members of the hardcore bands The Cro-Mags, The Dicks, Inside Out, Youth of Today, Shelter and 108 (band) were vocal Hare Krishna supporters in the 1980s and 1990s.
Placebo produced a Hare Krishna mantra track on their 1996 36 Degrees single, featuring traditional Eastern instruments. Hare Krishna is referenced to briefly in The Face on the Milk Carton by Caroline B. Clooney as the organization that brainwashed the mother of the main character and threatened her grandparents after her mother escaped for a short period of time.
George Harrison put a Hare Krishna sticker on the back of the headstock of Eric Clapton’s 1964 Gibson ES-335. The sticker also appeared on Gibson’s 2005 reproduction of the guitar.
Kula Shaker, Boy George, and members of the Rubetts have recorded music tracks about Krishna Consciousness.
The Washington D.C. Production duo Thievery Corporation Releases a track on the 2008 album entitled, “Hare Krishna”.
In The Muppet Movie (1979), a Hollywood agent in a swamp tells Kermit the Frog he is lost, to which Kermit replies, “Have you tried Hare Krishna?” The reference becomes a running gag in the movie.
In The Simpsons episode entitled “Homer and Apu” (Season 5, Episode 94, February 10, 1994), after seeing Christians singing in an Indian airport, a Hare Krishna devotee remarks “Oh, great – Christians”. Also, in the episode “The Joy of Sect” (Season 9, Episode 191, February 8, 1998) a Hare Krishna devotee asks Bart if he’s ever heard of Krishna Consciousness. In reply to which Homer says, “This, Bart, is a crazy man!”
In the episode of South Park entitled “Starvin’ Marvin in Space” (Season 3, Episode 44, November 17, 1999) there’s a scene involving Mr. Garrison telling his class that, “The Hare Krishnas are totally gay.”
Tenacious D had a track on their demo tape called “Krishna”
$ 5,000 reward offered for return of icons
By PEGGY O’HARE
HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Oct. 8, 2010, 10:42PM
Officials with Houston’s oldest Hare Krishna temple are asking the vandals who stole two sacred statues from the house of worship this week to return them, promising no questions will be asked.
The thieves probably stole the deities from the ISKCON of Houston Temple at 1320 W. 34th St. because they mistakenly thought the statues were made of gold, but they are made of brass, said Chirag Bhatt, a spokesman for the temple. The crime, worshippers said, would be akin to stealing a crucifix from a Roman Catholic church.
A $5,000 reward is being offered for the deities’ return.
“To be very honest with you, yesterday morning when I found out, I felt as if someone in the family had passed away,” Bhatt said. “According to our Hindu scripture, because those deities are invited to be present in their form in the temple and they were taken forcefully by the person from their location, this particular person has committed a major sin. That person and their family may face very serious consequences not only in this lifetime, but in generations to come.”
Worshipped by thousands
The northwest Houston temple has never before been burglarized. “That’s probably why this is a bigger shock,” Bhatt said. “It’s beyond the imagination of everyone who visits the temple on a regular basis.”
The burglary happened between 9:15 p.m. Wednesday and 4:30 a.m. Thursday when the intruders broke in through the temple’s locked back door. The temple’s alarm system was not activated because of ongoing construction at the building.
The deities, which weigh about 15 to 20 pounds and are about 18 to 24 inches long, are known as Sri Sri Radha Giridhari. They have been worshipped by thousands of Hindus in Houston. Worshippers revere them as personalities because the deities are invited to be present in the temple as a gesture of accepting the congregation’s devotional services.
The intruders also tried to take other deities that were apparently too heavy for them to lift, Bhatt said.
Houston police have alerted pawn shops and businesses that purchase brass objects to be on the lookout for the items.
Bhatt asked the thieves to return them, suggesting they could anonymously drop the statues off at the temple in the middle of the night.
“If they’re embarrassed by the action, they can come back in the middle of the night, place them somewhere and just leave them anonymously,” he said. The deities, he added, “don’t belong anywhere but their own home. All we can do is ask for them to bring them back, no questions asked.”
Services to continue
Worship services will continue at the ISKCON of Houston Temple, which is the oldest of its kind in the city. The temple originally opened in 1969 in downtown Houston at 1111 Rosalie. It moved to its current location on West 34th Street in 1984.
More than 100,000 Hindus are in Houston, said Vijay Pallod, a spokesman for Hindus of Greater Houston. peggy.ohare@chron.com
Prabhupada, New York, April 17, 1969: Thank you very much. Everything all right?
Devotees: Jaya.
Prabhupada: Hare Krishna. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. Govindam adi-purusa is known as Hari. Hari means “who takes away all your miseries.” That is Hari. Hara. Hara means taking away. Harate. So just like thief also takes away, but he takes away the valuable things, material consideration, sometimes Krishna also takes away your material valuables just to show you special favor. Yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaih. Yudhisthira Maharaja inquired from Krishna that “We are supposed to be very pious.
My brothers are great warriors, my wife is exactly the goddess of fortune, and above all, You are our personal friend. So how is this that we have lost everything? We have lost our kingdom, we have lost our wife, we have lost our honor— everything.” So in reply to this, Krishna said, yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaih: “My first favor is that I take away all riches of My devotee.”
Therefore people are not very much enthusiastic to come to Krishna consciousness. But He does it. Just like the Pandavas were in the beginning put into difficulty, but later on they became the most exalted personalities throughout the whole history. That is Krishna’s favor. In the beginning, He may do like that because we have got attachment for our material acquisitions.
So… That is my personal experience. In the beginning, when my Guru Maharaja ordered me, I thought it that “I shall first of all become very rich man; then I shall preach.” So I was doing very nice in business. In the business circle, I got very good name, and with whom I was dealing business, they were very satisfied. But Krishna made so trick that He broke everything, and He obliged me to take sannyasa. So that is Hari. So that I had to come to your country with only seven dollars. So they are criticizing, “The swami came here with no money. Now he’s so opulent.”
So they are taking the back side, black side, you see? But the thing is… Of course, I have become profited, profitable, or I have acquired profit. I left my home, my children and everything. I came here as a pauper, with seven dollars. That is no money. But I have got now big properties, hundreds of children. (laughter) And I haven’t got to think for their provision. They are thinking of me. So that is Krishna’s favor. In the beginning, it appears to be very bitter.
When I took sannyasa, when I was living alone, I was feeling very bitter. I, sometimes I was thinking, “Whether I have done wrong by accepting?” So when I was publishing this Back to Godhead from Delhi, one day one bull thrashed me, and I fell down on the footpath and I got severe injury. I was alone. So I was thinking, “What is this?” So I had very — days of very tribulations — but it was all meant for good. So don’t be afraid of tribulations. You see? Go forward. Krishna will give you protection.
That is Krishna’s promise in the Bhagavad-gita. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati: “Kaunteya, My dear son of Kunti, Arjuna, you can declare throughout the whole world that My devotees will never be vanquished. You can declare that.” And why He’s asking Arjuna to declare? Why He does not declare Himself? There is meaning. Because if He promises, there are instances that He sometimes broke His promise.
But if a devotee promises, it will be never broken. Krishna will give protection; therefore He says His devotee that “You declare.” There is no chance of being broken. Krishna is so kind that sometimes He breaks His promise, but if His devotee promises, He takes very careful attention that His devotee’s promise may not be broken. That is Krishna’s favor.
So aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. We are worshiping govindam adi-purusam, the supreme original Personality of Godhead who is known as Hari. The Vedic scripture says aradhito yadi harih. If you have come to the point of worshiping Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, tapasa tatah kim, then there is no more need of austerity, penances, yoga practice, or this or that, so many sacrifices, ritualistic… All finished.
You do not require to take trouble for these things if you have come to the point of sacrificing everything for Hari. Aradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. And naradhito yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. And you are performing austerities, penances, sacrifices, ritualistic ceremony—everything— but I do not know what is Hari: it is useless, all useless. Naradhito yadi harih, naradhitah.
If you do not come to the point of worshiping Hari, then all these things are useless. Tatah kim. Antarbahir yadi haris tapasa tatah kim. If you always see Hari within yourself and if you see Hari always outside, inside and outside… Tad vantike tad dure tad… What is that verse? Isopanisad? Tad antare… Dure tad antike sarvasya.
Hari is present everywhere, so one who sees Hari, antike, near, or distant place, within, outside, he does not see anything except Hari. How it becomes possible? Premanjana- cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38]. When one is merged into the love of God, he does not see anything in the world except Hari. That is his vision. So antarbahir yadi hari, inside and outside, if you always see Hari, Krishna, tapasa tatah kim, then what is the use of your other austerities and penances? You are on the topmost level. That is wanted. Nanta-bahir yadi haris tapasa tatah kim.
And if you do not see within and outside Hari always, then what is the value of your austerities? Therefore in the morning we chant this mantra, govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **. We have no other business. Simply we have to satisfy Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna. Then everything is complete. He is complete and His worship is complete, His devotee is complete. Everything is complete.
Thank you. Chant.
In this conversation, taped at George’s home in England on September 4, 1982, George reveals some memorable experiences he has had chanting Hare Krishna and describes in detail his deep personal realizations about the chanting. He reveals what factors led him to produce “The Hare Krishna Mantra” record, “My Sweet Lord,” and the LPs All Things Must Pass and Living in the Material World, which were all influenced to a great extent by the Hare Krishna chanting and philosophy. He speaks lovingly and openly about his association with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya (spiritual master) of the Hare Krishna movement. In the following interview George speaks frankly about his personal philosophy regarding the Hare Krishna movement, music, yoga, reincarnation, karma, the soul, God, and Christianity. The conversation concludes with his fond remembrances of a visit to the birthplace of Lord Krishna in Vrndavana, India, home of the Hare Krishna mantra, and with George discussing some of his celebrity friends’ involvement with the mantra now heard and chanted around the world.
George Harrison and Srila Prabhupada
Prabhupada with George Harrison
I realized later on that he was much more incredible than what you could see on the surface.
Mukunda: George, you and John Lennon met Srila Prabhupada together when he stayed at John’s home, in September of 1969.
George: Yes, but when I met him at first, I underestimated him. I didn’t realize it then, but I see now that because of him, the mantra has spread so far in the last sixteen years, more than it had in the last five centuries. Now that’s pretty amazing, because he was getting older and older, yet he was writing his books all the time. I realized later on that he was much more incredible than what you could see on the surface.
The thing that always stays is his saying, “I am the servant
of the servant of the servant.” I like that…. I liked Prabhupada’s
humbleness. I always liked his humility and his simplicity
The servant of the servant of the servant is really what it is,
you know. None of us are God–just His servants.
Mukunda: What about him stands out the most in your mind?
George: The thing that always stays is his saying, “I am the servant of the servant of the servant.” I like that. A lot of people say, “I’m it. I’m the divine incarnation. I’m here and let me hip you.” You know what I mean? But Prabhupada was never like that. I liked Prabhupada’s humbleness. I always liked his humility and his simplicity The servant of the servant of the servant is really what it is, you know. None of us are God–just His servants. He just made me feel so comfortable. I always felt very relaxed with him, and I felt more like a friend. I felt that he was a good friend. Even though he was at the time seventy-nine years old, working practically all through the night, day after day, with very little sleep, he still didn’t come through to me as though he was a very highly educated intellectual being, because he had a sort of childlike simplicity. Which is great, fantastic. Even though he was the greatest Sanskrit scholar and a saint, I appreciated the fact that he never made me feel uncomfortable. In fact, he always went out of his way to make me feel comfortable. I always thought of him as sort of a lovely friend, really, and now he’s still a lovely friend.
Mukunda: In one of his books, Prabhupada said that your sincere service was better than some people who had delved more deeply into Krishna consciousness but could not maintain that level of commitment. How did you feel about this?
George: Very wonderful, really. I mean it really gave me hope, because as they say, even one moment in the company of a divine person, Krishna’s pure devotee, can help a tremendous amount. And I think Prabhupada was really pleased at the idea that somebody from outside of the temple was helping to get the album made. Just the fact that he was pleased was encouraging to me. I knew he liked “The Hare Krishna Mantra” record, and he asked the devotees to play that song “Govinda.” They still play it, don’t they?
That was the thing about Prabhupada, you see.
He didn’t just talk about loving Krishna and getting
out of this place, but he was the perfect example….
He was a perfect example of everything he preached.
Mukunda: Every temple has a recording of it, and we play it each morning when the devotees assemble before the altar, before kirtana. It’s an ISKCON institution, you might say. George: And if I didn’t get feedback from Prabhupada on my songs about Krishna or the philosophy, I’d get it from the devotees. That’s all the encouragement I needed really. It just seemed that anything spiritual I did, either through songs, or helping with publishing the books, or whatever, really pleased him. The song I wrote, “Living in the Material World,” as I wrote in I, Me, Mine, was influenced by Srila Prabhupada. He’s the one who explained to me how we’re not these physical bodies. We just happen to be in them.
Like I said in the song, this place’s not really what’s happening. We don’t belong here, but in the spiritual sky: As l’m fated for the material world, Get frustrated in the material world, Senses never gratified, Only swelling like a tide, That could drown me in the material world. The whole point to being here, really, is to figure a way to get out. That was the thing about Prabhupada, you see. He didn’t just talk about loving Krishna and getting out of this place, but he was the perfect example. He talked about always chanting, and he was always chanting. I think that that in itself was perhaps the most encouraging thing for me. It was enough to make me try harder, to be just a little bit better. He was a perfect example of everything he preached.
I think Prabhupada’s accomplishments are very significant;
they’re huge. Even compared to someone like William Shakespeare,
the amount of literature Prabhupada produced is truly amazing.
It boggles the mind. He sometimes went for
days with only a few hours sleep.
Mukunda: How would you describe Srila Prabhupada’s achievements?
George: I think Prabhupada’s accomplishments are very significant; they’re huge. Even compared to someone like William Shakespeare, the amount of literature Prabhupada produced is truly amazing. It boggles the mind. He sometimes went for days with only a few hours sleep. I mean even a youthful, athletic young person couldn’t keep the pace he kept himself at seventy-nine years of age.
Srila Prabhupada has already had an amazing effect
on the world. There’s no way of measuring it.
One day I just realized, “God, this man is amazing!”
George: Srila Prabhupada has already had an amazing effect on the world. There’s no way of measuring it. One day I just realized, “God, this man is amazing!” He would sit up all night translating Sanskrit into English, putting in glossaries to make sure everyone understands it, and yet he never came off as someone above you. He always had that childlike simplicity, and what’s most amazing is the fact that he did all this translating in such a relatively short time–just a few years. And without having anything more than his own Krishna consciousness, he rounded up all these thousands of devotees, set the whole movement in motion, which became something so strong that it went on even after he left. And it’s still escalating even now at an incredible rate. It will go on and on from the knowledge he gave. [Edititors note: Srila Prabhupada: “Even if they stop (the movement) externally, internally it will go on.”] It can only grow and grow. The more people wake up spiritually, the more they’ll begin to realize the depth of what Prabhupada was saying–how much he gave.
His contribution has obviously been enormous
from the literary point of view, because he’s brought
the Supreme Person, Krishna, more into focus.
Mukunda: Did you know that complete sets of Prabhupada’s books are in all the major colleges and universities in the world, including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge, and the Sorbonne?
George: They should be! One of the greatest things I noticed about Prabhupada was the way he would be talking to you in English, and then all of a sudden he would say it to you in Sanskrit and then translate it back into English. It was clear that he really knew it well. His contribution has obviously been enormous from the literary point of view, because he’s brought the Supreme Person, Krishna, more into focus. A lot of scholars and writers know the Gita, but only on an intellectual level. Even when they write “Krishna said…,” they don’t do it with the bhakti or love required. That’s the secret, you know–Krishna is actually a person who is the Lord and who will also appear there in that book when there is that love, that bhakti. You can’t understand the first thing about God unless you love Him. These big so-called Vedic scholars–they don’t necessarily love Krishna, so they can’t understand Him and give Him to us. But Prabhupada was different. Well, Prabhupada’s definitely affected the world in an absolute way.
What he was giving us was the highest literature, the highest
knowledge. I mean there just isn’t anything higher.
Mukunda: The Vedic literatures predicted that after the advent of Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago, there would be a Golden Age of ten thousand years, when the chanting of the holy names of God would completely nullify all the degradations of the modern age, and real spiritual peace would come to this planet.
George: Well, Prabhupada’s definitely affected the world in an absolute way. What he was giving us was the highest literature, the highest knowledge. I mean there just isn’t anything higher.
Mukunda: You write in your autobiography that “No matter how good you are, you still need grace to get out of the material world. You can be a yogi or a monk or a nun, but without God’s grace you still can’t make it.” And at the end of the song “Living in the Material World,” the Iyrics say, “Got to get out of this place by the Lord Sri Krishna’s grace, my salvation from the material world.” If we’re dependent on the grace of God, what does the expression “God helps those who help themselves” mean?
George Harrison Vrindavan
George: It’s flexible, I think. In one way, I’m never going to get out of here unless it’s by His grace but then again, His grace is relative to the amount of desire I can manifest in myself. The amount of grace I would expect from God should be equal to the amount of grace I can gather or earn. I get out what I put in. Like in the song I wrote about Prabhupada: The Lord loves the one that loves the Lord
And the law says if you don’t give,
then you don’t get loving
Now the Lord helps those that help themselves
And the law says whatever you do
It comes right back on you
-”The Lord Loves the One that Loves the Lord”
from Living in the Material World Apple LP
Have you heard that song “That Which I Have Lost” from my new album, Somewhere in England? It’s right out of the Bhagavad-gita. In it I talk about fighting the forces of darkness, limitations, falsehood, and mortality.
“My Sweet Lord”
Mukunda: I don’t think it’s possible to calculate just how many people were turned on to Krishna consciousness by your song “My Sweet Lord.” But you went through quite a personal thing before you decided to do that song. In your book you said, “I thought a lot about whether to do ‘My Sweet Lord’ or not because I would be committing myself publicly … Many people fear the words Lord and God … I was sticking my neck out on the chopping block … but at the same time I thought ‘Nobody’s saying it … why should I be untrue to myself?’ I came to believe in the importance that if you feel something strong enough, then you should say it.
“I wanted to show that Hallelujah and Hare Krishna are quite the same thing. I did the voices singing ‘Hallelujah’ and then the change to ‘Hare Krishna’ so that people would be chanting the maha-mantra-before they knew what was going on! I had been chanting Hare Krishna for a long time, and this song was a simple idea of how to do a Western pop equivalent of a mantra which repeats over and over again the holy names. I don’t feel guilty or bad about it; in fact it saved many a heroin addict’s life.”
Why did you feel you wanted to put Hare Krishna on the album at all? Wouldn’t “Hallelujah” alone have been good enough?
George: Well, first of all “Hallelujah” is a joyous expression the Christians have, but “Hare Krishna” has a mystical side to it. It’s more than just glorifying God; it’s asking to become His servant. And because of the way the mantra is put together, with the mystic spiritual energy contained in those syllables, it’s much closer to God than the way Christianity currently seems to be representing Him. Although Christ in my mind is an absolute yogi, I think many Christian teachers today are misrepresenting Christ. They’re supposed to be representing Jesus, but they’re not doing it very well. They’re letting him down very badly, and that’s a big turn off.
My idea in “My Sweet Lord,” because it sounded like a “pop song,” was to sneak up on them a bit. The point was to have the people not offended by “Hallelujah,” and by the time it gets to “Hare Krishna,” they’re already hooked, and their foot’s tapping, and they’re already singing along “Hallelujah,” to kind of lull them into a sense of false security. And then suddenly it turns into “Hare Krishna,” and they will all be singing that before they know what’s happened, and they will think, “Hey, I thought I wasn’t supposed to like Hare Krishna!”
People write to me even now asking what style that was. Ten years later they’re still trying to figure out what the words mean. It was just a little trick really. And it didn’t offend. For some reason I never got any offensive feedback from Christians who said “We like it up to a point, but what’s all this about Hare Krishna?”
Hallelujah may have originally been some mantric thing that got watered down, but I’m not sure what it really means. The Greek word for Christ is Kristos, which is, let’s face it, Krishna, and Kristos is the same name actually.
Mukunda: What would you say is the difference between the Christian view of God, and Krishna as represented in the Bhagavad-gita?
George: When I first came to this house, it was occupied by nuns. I brought in this poster of Visnu [a four-armed form of Krishna]. You just see His head and shoulders and His four arms holding a conchshell and various other symbols, and it has a big oàThis transcendental syllable, which represents Krishna, has been chanted by many persons throughout history for spiritual perfection.* written above it. He has a nice aura around Him. I left it by the fireplace and went out into the garden. When we came back in thc house, they all pounced on me, saying, “Who is that? What is it?” as if it were some pagan god. So I said, “Well, if God is unlimited, then He can appear in any form, whichever way He likes to appear. That’s one way. He’s called Visnu.” It sort of freaked them out a bit, but the point is, why should God be limited? Even if you get Him as Krishna, He is not limited to that picture of Krishna. He can be the baby form, He can be Govinda and manifest in so many other well-known forms. You can see Krishna as a little boy, which is how I like to see Krishna. It’s a joyful relationship. But there’s this morbid side to the way many represent Christianity today, where you don’t smile, because it’s too serious, and you can’t expect to see God-that kind of stuff. If there is God, we must see Him, and I don’t believe in the idea you find in most churches, where they say, “No, you’re not going to see Him. He’s way up above you. Just believe what we tell you and shut up.”
I mean, the knowledge that’s given in Prabhupada’s books-the Vedic stuff-that’s the world’s oldest scriptures. They say that man can become purified, and with divine vision he can see God. You get pure by chanting, then you see Him. And Sanskrit, the language they’re written in, is the world’s first recorded language. Devanagari [the alphabet of the Sanskrit language] actually means “language of the gods.”
Mukunda: Anyone who is sincere about making spiritual advancement, whatever one’s religion may be, can usually see the value of chanting. I mean if that person was really trying to be God conscious and trying to chant sincerely.
George: That’s right. It’s a matter of being open. Anyone who’s open can do it. You just have to be open and not prejudiced. You just have to try it. There’s no loss, you know. But the “intellectuals” will always have problems, because they always need to “know.” They’re often the most spiritually bankrupt people, because they never let go; they don’t understand the meaning of “to transcend” the intellect. But an ordinary person’s more willing to say, “Okay. Let me try it and see if it works.” Chanting Hare Krishna can make a person a better Christian, too.
